"The trouble was that I knew nothing else; I did not recognize the other, true reality. I was being subtly maneuvered into accepting the views of those stupid deceivers by the questions they constantly asked me about the origins of evil, and whether God was confined to material form with hair and nails, and whether people who practiced polygamy. killed human beings, and offered animal sacrifices could be counted as righteous. Being ignorant of these matters I was very disturbed by the questions, and supposed that I was approaching the truth when in fact I was moving away from it. I did not know that evil is the diminishment of good to the point where nothing at all is left. How could I see that, I whose power of sight was restricted to seeing material shapes with my eyes and imaginary forms with my mind?...." (This is exactly what Messianic are do through their proselytization, except in reverse, because they call into question Christian liberty through the application of the Law of Moses.)
"... I did not know either that true inward righteousness takes as its criterion not customs but the most righteous law of God, by which the morality of countries and times was formed as appropriate to those countries and times, while God's law itself has remained unchanged everywhere and always, not one thing in one place and something different elsewhere. By this norm Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David and all those of whom God spoke approvingly were indeed righteous; they are accounted guilt only by persons of limited experience who judge by some day of human reckoning and measure the conduct of the human race at large by the standard that befits their own. They are like someone who knows nothing about armor, or which piece belongs where, and tries to cover his head with the greaves and his feet with the helmet, and then grumbles because they do not fit properly. Or again, they are like a man who on a certain day which is appointed a public holiday from noon onward is indignant because he is not allowed to set out his goods for sale in the afternoon, although this was allowed in the morning; or like a person who in one and the same house sees something being handled by one servant which another one, who serves drinks, is not allowed to touch, or something being done behind the stables which is not properly done at table, and gets angry about this, complaining because, while there is one house and one staff of servants, the same actions are not permitted to everybody in all places." (This is the great disconnect between Messianics and the rest of Christendom. They struggle with reconciling the vicissitude (changing) of laws, rules, and statutes throughout the ages with the constancy of God's nature. They are missing the philosophical and theological links)
"Equally foolish are people who grow indignant on hearing that some practice was allowed to righteous people in earlier ages which is forbidden to the righteous of our own day, and that God laid down one rule for the former and a different one for the latter, as the difference between the two periods of time demands; whereas in fact both sets of people have been subject to the same norm of righteousness. This attitude is just as stupid as being upset because, with regard to a single man or a single day or a single house, one perceives different pieces of armour to be designed for different limbs, and an activity to be lawful to a certain hour but not afterward, and something to be permitted or even ordered in a corner but forbidden and punished elsewhere. Does this mean that justice is fickle and changeable? No, but the epochs over which she rules do not all unfold in the same way, precisely because times change. Human beings live on earth for a brief span only, and they lack the discernment to bring the conditions of earlier ages, of which they have no experience, into the same frame of reference with those they know well; but they can easily perceive in one body or one day or one house what is appropriate for each limb, each time, and all persons and places. Thus while they may be scandalized by the one, they readily submit to the other." (This is exactly what the Messianics are doing, only in reverse, because they are trying to live in the past.)
"Every art and every inquiry, and similarly every action and choice, is thought to aim at some good; and for this reason the good has rightly been declared to be that at which all things aim." ~Aristotle~
Showing posts with label Papists. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Papists. Show all posts
Sunday, 3 April 2011
Sunday, 26 December 2010
Ad KJV Protestants: A General Reply To Some Stock Charges
I'm making a general reply here to some stock charges that self described "Bible Christians" have made against the Catholic and Orthodox Churches. So, please read it in that context:
The Church is not a man made institution any more than the bible is a man made book. It has been given Life by God; life is the death of death. This is why we are baptized, because death dies in life which is the water. We rise again out of the water, life from life. Therefore, the Church "IS" until it is not.
The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth, not the scripture, because Paul says in Timothy 3:15 (KJV, just for you): "But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth."
To dismiss the Church as secondary and only complimentary, as though it were some mildly beneficial superfluity, and yet give assent to the scripture as primary and necessary, totally salvific based on its own merits, disagrees entirely with the whole bible itself, common sense and the whole history of the people of God. Indeed, that supposition controverts Christ Himself.
The Church made and conglomerated the bible, because it has the authority to do so. It approved and disapproved texts, because it has the authority to do so. The scripture submitted itself to the Church so that the Church could submit to the scripture; both submit to God because they are equally from God. Each are clearly defined, the Church is defined in councils the scripture is defined in canons. They have recourse to each other. To have only the bible and no Church is like having faith but no reason, or being a bird with one wing, or being a man with one leg, like having a heart but no liver. And the Church is not only generally ontological being called "the people of God" but it is particularly ontological being "One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church" which includes all proper Apostolic Church, East and West. So, the Protestant, the person who only clings to the bible and not the Church, is diminished, being only generally ontological, not enjoying the particular graces of being particularly ontological.
The power of the bible is that it is interpreted. You make the assertion that the King James is "self-correcting," except the reality is that it is readily found in the hands of over 30,000 different protestant denominations, not to mention those who are not even Trinitarian Christians, or not even Christians at all... like the cults of the Mormons and the Seventh Day Adventist. Indeed, the KJV is the translation from which many modern heresiarchs have unilaterally innovated their own patent heresies.
The practice is pretexting; taking a text out of context to make a pretext. Protestants can't help but to pretext, because they have no legitimate means by which to put those texts into context. And whenever confronted with this fact, the automated rebuttal is," I have the Holy Spirit." Yeah, you and the 30,000 other denominations, and the Mormons and JW's, prosperity gospel spongers, etc... etc...
The fullness of faith is found in Churches established by the apostles, whether it be any of the Orthodoxies or any of the rites in communion with the Roman Catholic Church. These Churches shepherd the flock of Christ with the Holy Spirit, and not in a presumptive and arbitrary manner, but via the confluence of the shepherds (bishops), that is, their mutual and prayerful agreement upon what the Holy Spirit has revealed to them as a whole.
You state:"Trusting an ever infallible Christ in opposition to an only fallible man-made institution seems only logical to us." Except, it is obvious from scripture and beyond refute that the infallible Christ 'has' already entrusted those things which are worthy of faith to "only fallible men" because according to the scriptures he gave the Apostles the right to bind and loose on earth and in heaven and to forgive sins, he gave Peter the Keys and the Book of Life, and put the whole flock of God predestined to salvation into the capable hands of the Apostles and their successors, the bishops. This is the work of Christ. So, trusting in those organizations, because of what Christ has done Himself, is only logical.
It is the height of folly to rest upon one's own understanding, or to even trust in an island of peers who rest upon the conjecture of one another (which is Protestantism). "The bible alone" is to be quite alone indeed, and though it can be a path that leads to life, it is most often one that leads to despair and is not the path intended by Christ for his followers.
The Church is not a man made institution any more than the bible is a man made book. It has been given Life by God; life is the death of death. This is why we are baptized, because death dies in life which is the water. We rise again out of the water, life from life. Therefore, the Church "IS" until it is not.
The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth, not the scripture, because Paul says in Timothy 3:15 (KJV, just for you): "But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth."
To dismiss the Church as secondary and only complimentary, as though it were some mildly beneficial superfluity, and yet give assent to the scripture as primary and necessary, totally salvific based on its own merits, disagrees entirely with the whole bible itself, common sense and the whole history of the people of God. Indeed, that supposition controverts Christ Himself.
The Church made and conglomerated the bible, because it has the authority to do so. It approved and disapproved texts, because it has the authority to do so. The scripture submitted itself to the Church so that the Church could submit to the scripture; both submit to God because they are equally from God. Each are clearly defined, the Church is defined in councils the scripture is defined in canons. They have recourse to each other. To have only the bible and no Church is like having faith but no reason, or being a bird with one wing, or being a man with one leg, like having a heart but no liver. And the Church is not only generally ontological being called "the people of God" but it is particularly ontological being "One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church" which includes all proper Apostolic Church, East and West. So, the Protestant, the person who only clings to the bible and not the Church, is diminished, being only generally ontological, not enjoying the particular graces of being particularly ontological.
The power of the bible is that it is interpreted. You make the assertion that the King James is "self-correcting," except the reality is that it is readily found in the hands of over 30,000 different protestant denominations, not to mention those who are not even Trinitarian Christians, or not even Christians at all... like the cults of the Mormons and the Seventh Day Adventist. Indeed, the KJV is the translation from which many modern heresiarchs have unilaterally innovated their own patent heresies.
The practice is pretexting; taking a text out of context to make a pretext. Protestants can't help but to pretext, because they have no legitimate means by which to put those texts into context. And whenever confronted with this fact, the automated rebuttal is," I have the Holy Spirit." Yeah, you and the 30,000 other denominations, and the Mormons and JW's, prosperity gospel spongers, etc... etc...
The fullness of faith is found in Churches established by the apostles, whether it be any of the Orthodoxies or any of the rites in communion with the Roman Catholic Church. These Churches shepherd the flock of Christ with the Holy Spirit, and not in a presumptive and arbitrary manner, but via the confluence of the shepherds (bishops), that is, their mutual and prayerful agreement upon what the Holy Spirit has revealed to them as a whole.
You state:"Trusting an ever infallible Christ in opposition to an only fallible man-made institution seems only logical to us." Except, it is obvious from scripture and beyond refute that the infallible Christ 'has' already entrusted those things which are worthy of faith to "only fallible men" because according to the scriptures he gave the Apostles the right to bind and loose on earth and in heaven and to forgive sins, he gave Peter the Keys and the Book of Life, and put the whole flock of God predestined to salvation into the capable hands of the Apostles and their successors, the bishops. This is the work of Christ. So, trusting in those organizations, because of what Christ has done Himself, is only logical.
It is the height of folly to rest upon one's own understanding, or to even trust in an island of peers who rest upon the conjecture of one another (which is Protestantism). "The bible alone" is to be quite alone indeed, and though it can be a path that leads to life, it is most often one that leads to despair and is not the path intended by Christ for his followers.
"Every art and every inquiry, and similarly every action and choice, is thought to aim at some good; and for this reason the good has rightly been declared to be that at which all things aim." ~Aristotle~
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